Q&A about God at Brown University

On Tuesday nights The Providence Zen Center holds a meditation session at the Dharma Room (Manning Chapel) at Brown University. The following is an account of one of the exchanges which has taken place there.

After one of the Dharma Teachers was finished with his introductory remarks, he asked those congregated to direct their questions to Zen Master Seung Sahn, Soen Sa Nim. One of the visitors asked if there was a God.

Soen Sa answered “If you think God, you have God, if you do not think God, you do not have God.”

“I think that there is no God. Why do I have God if I think God?”

“Do you understand God?”

“No, I don’t know.”

“Do you understand yourself?”

“I don’t know.”

“You do not understand God. You do not understand yourself. How would you even know if there was a God or not?”

“Then, is there a God?”

“God is not God, no God is God.”

“Why is God not God?”

Holding up the Zen stick, Soen Sa said “This is a stick, but it is not a stick. Originally, there is no stick. It is the same with God for originally there is no God. God is only name. The same is true of all things in the universe.”

“Then is there no God?”

“The philosopher Descartes said, ‘I think therefore I am.’ If you do not think, you are not, and so the universe and you are one. This is your substance, the universe’s substance, and God’s substance. It has no name and no form. You are God, God is you. This is the ‘big I,’ this is the path, this is the truth. Do you now understand God?”

“Yes, I think that there is no God, and I have no God.”

“If you say that you have no God, I will hit you thirty times. If you say that you do, I will still hit you thirty times.”

“Why will you hit me? I don’t understand. Please explain.”

“I do not give acupuncture to a dead cow. Today is Tuesday.” replied Soen Sa.

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